The STAR WARS MONTHLY MONDAY Thread

[Ken]

That's always been my problem with TCW. They are quick to dismiss or ignore the EU as they see fit.

As much as I ended up liking the Nightsisters arc, there's a lot they either ignored or changed to suit the story they wanted to tell.

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[Arthur Ratnik]

[Ken]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

The expanded universe was great, when that's all we had. In the end, the Star Wars expanded universe novels aren't worth getting that upset about, they mean nothing if you enjoyed the prequels and the Clone Wars. When Heir to the Empire came out, I ate it up with a shovel, because it was new star wars, and it was pretty decent, even if derivitive at times. Tales from the Cantina, The bounty hunters, all fun stuff, but in the end, simply irrelevant. Star Wars is the story of Anakin and Luke. If you love the Expanded universe, love it, and don't try to rectify it with the Prequel timeline and the Clone Wars. You've got Episodes 4-6 and the novels afterwards as 1 continuity, and the prequel trilogy and its novels as another. We are all comic book fans with vested interests in several alternate realities, why should Star Wars be any different?

[JonathanCrites]

[ljacone]

[NewFun#6]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Don't let it unravel it then. Along with my two scenarios above, add a third, which omits the cartoon. I loved the original cell animated series of clone wars, which simply can not fit in with everything else, but its not going to stop me from enjoying it. I think as I get older the idea of super ridiculous continuity in any long running serialised fiction worked on by multiple artists just cannot work completely smoothly, and I would much rather be entertained consistently with each iteration keeping its own tone and feel than trying to hamstring story ideas and plot threads that could be good into a micromanaged package of "blahness."

[NewFun#6]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Haha, classic.

[Bibliomike]

Really? Feminine napkin jokes?

On the continuity question, I've finally decided (with apologies to Kubrick) to stop worrying and love the franchise. I do want to know the fate of Ashoka, but beyond major things like that (for example, if an episode suddenly revealed that Anakin had a sister or something -- hey, maybe Ashoka is a Force-created baby, too? <g>), I am content with Lucas' approach of, "It's ultimately my universe, I can do what I want to." I suppose it is all those years as a Trek fan, knowing that the Trek "EU" just "didn't count" in canonical terms. When I was first dipping my toes into Star Wars fandom in a serious way, I found the idea of a self-consistent main universe and EU appealing; but having to go through hoops to explain why, for example, the blockade runner seen at the end of Ep III is or isn't the same one at the beginning of Ep IV just doesn't excite me. So I guess I'm with Scott on this one: just entertain me, even make me think a little, I'll be happy.

I am really rooting for Ahsoka to have survived into the New Republic era, somehow, someway. We know there are some Jedi who escaped the purge (and apparently more all the time in the comics, Scott has said!), or maybe Ashoka decided the Jedi life just wasn't for her. It would be cool if, if a live-action Episode VII ever came to pass, that Ashley Eckstein would finally get to play Ashoka in the flesh, not just in the voice.

[JonathanCrites]

[NewFun#6]

[NewFun#6]

[Bibliomike]

Hey, Scott.

1. Yeah, I guess I didn't read you closely enough. I understand you now, even though I don't agree, but that is simply because I don't have a lot of history with the EU as you do. To be clear, I do appreciate why long-time EU fans may have issues with the CW "messing it all up," as you say. (And I do agree that most of season 3 was eminently forgettable -- I only really enjoyed the Nightsisters and Citadel trilogies. 6 out of 22 eps? Not a good batting average. Here's hoping season 4 is better.) On the plus side, I think CW is keeping the franchise alive in a way that the EU by itself could not -- and I don't think it's analagous (not that you said it was, it just ocurred to me) to the Abrams reboot of Trek keeping that franchise before the public. In the case of CW, Lucas and many of the same creative behind the scenes folks are involved and calling the shots, so it's more akin to TNG showing up after two decades of only TOS and the first TOS films (and, I guess, TAS). In the end, I think CW is a Good Thing for Star Wars, whether or not it throws the EU into disarray. Most casual fans of the franchise aren't going to know or care, and I think Lucasfilm is being smart to throw bones to the hard-core EU fans where they can, but not to let it get in the way of a good show that the biggest audience can enjoy.

2. I do actually agree that something tragic with Ashoka would have a certain emotional satisfaction to it, even if it is sad (cuz I really like the character), and it has a relentless logic about it -- Anakin got close, lost someone he cared for, never mentioned her again, and damned if he's gonna let the same thing happen to Padme in Ep III -- but, still! Maybe Ashoka can just get so disgusted with how she sees the Jedi order crumbling that she renounces her status and goes off into self-imposed exile or something. I actually thought last week's season finale might have been laying seeds for that, because I thought for a moment they were really going to have Ashoka kill that villain -- thus giving her her own "Tusken Raider massacre" moment: something she did that she had a hard time living with -- only in Ashoka's case, it might lead to her realizing Anakin's negative influence and deciding she only wanted to keep his positive contributions to her, and getting out of Jedi training while the getting was good.

All I can say is, it will be a sad day and will require lots of debriefing with my kids (especially my daughter, who is only 3 but who loves Ashoka!) if she meets a tragic end onscreen. It is still a kid's show, after all -- not just that, but it *is* that; and while I don't say they should censor themselves per se on that account, they should bear it in mind when deciding what stories they tell. And I think they generally do. Maybe the series finale can hint at what happens to Ashoka, but still leave it up to the veiwers to decide... I dunno. It'll be interesting.

[Bibliomike]

[NewFun#6]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

'Anger, fear, agression....the dark side are they.......'

If Clone Wars doesn't deal with why Ahsoka isn't seen in ROTS and onwards, then the entire series pretty much will be a colossal waste from a narrative standpoint, regardless of how entertaining it can be. Maybe that's my biggest gripe with genre fiction, especially long running series. Don't waste time, don't pad. If you have an endgame, you should always be working towards it in some form or another. Granted, Clone Wars has introduced new characters that we need to see develop in order to feel for them, but placing a chunk of story in the middle of an outcome we already know to be inevitable is a daunting task, and not one I would want to have to work in, again, because of the hamstringing by continuity conundrum. Its the reason I stopped watching Lost, that series was the biggest bait and switch pulled on mainstream audiences I've ever seen. After season 2 I figured that the audience was going to get absolutely nothing of substance until the last season. Little did I know that even that season would have nothing of substance either until I watched the last 3 hours of the show, and was incredibly glad that I didn't waste the time to continue with it.

People say the journey is what matters, not the destination. I call bullshit. Not when dealing with narrative fiction. The ending is(should be) the punctuation point on the story.

Geez do I ramble.

[Arthur Ratnik]

Like real life is continuity. Stories that don't match up at all in real life - there are many. Different points of view, no witnesses, people are all wasted - never any way to get a straight story in our reality there is. In Star Wars world why shouldn't it be so too, hm? One world- many different storytellers don't always tell the story the same. Or tell it right, hmm?

[JonathanCrites]