The Star Trek Monthly Monday Thread

[Arthur Ratnik]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Oh it certainly is that, to me, its the fact that they couldn't balance the seriousness of what they were trying to say with the goofiness that pervades it, if in another overall lighter Trek Film, would have been fine.

[JonathanCrites]

Ok, since the Trek talk was getting hot and heavy on the Star Wars thread I decided to post this here. You've probably all seen it but it bears watching again:

[Bibliomike]

Good episode, guys (and, again, sorry I couldn't make it.) (If nothing else, I could have stuck up for my fellow redhead. "Ugly"? Harsh! And, yup, way shallow -- at least you had the guts to own it! <g>)

I always thought they could have given Data some "aging subroutine" had they needed to -- but, you're right, Spiner always invoked that as a reason that he couldn't keep playing the role indefinitely. (Nor should he have been expected to. Actors need new challenges, that's fair enough.

I agree with Shag: I want a "Star Trek" movie to be an Event -- something that could not be done (or, at least, could not be reasonably or as successfully done) on the small screen. Big stakes, just as here: the Borgification of Earth, the threatened unraveling of Federation history -- good stuff, right up there on the V'Ger and Genesis and "save the whales" and "let's meet God" scale. I don't know that I would call FC TNG's "finest two hours," as Shag does -- I probably still reserve that for "The Best of Both Worlds" (CHRIS! You need to see it NOW!) -- but it definitely ranks high.

"Nemesis" is not my favorite Trek film by any means, but I liked it a *lot* better after I read Bram Stoker's "Dracula." It is basically a Star Trek take on vampires in general, and that novel in particular. Read Stoker's original book if you haven't, and then watch "Nemesis," and see if you don't spot tons of parallels.

I really need to watch "Metamorphosis" again, because I do not get this Chris Pike-vibe from the Glenn Corbett (?) Cochrane that you get. And, even if it is so, it is not too much of a stretch to imagine that Cromwell Cochrane would grow into the Corbett Cochrane following the first contact: after all, as Riker even says in the film, even ten years later Cochrane is going to be able to say things like "Don't worry about being a great man, just be a man" with a straight face. That's the kind of thing I could see Corbett Cochrane saying -- so it's a natural evolution. (Shag makes essentially this argument in your podcast.)

As for violating other canon, humanity's first contact with aliens was never addressed in on-screen Star Trek canon (which, in Trek, as the only canon there is). Some novels (especially "Strangers in the Sky") speculated that humans first met Vulcans -- and, hey, "First Contact" got that "right," so give it credit for that. In "Metamorphosis," Cochrane is identified as being "of Alpha Centuari," meaning that -- if you read that strictly -- a non-human invented warp drive. But there have been attempts to explain it - e.g., he retired to Alpha Centauri, etc. Nothing insurmountable.

AND, as I've argued with Scott before, there is nothing in this film itself that suggests the Vulcans "lifted us out of the ashes." That can ALL be laid at the feet of the "Enterprise" TV series. ALL the movie shows us is the Vulcans meeting the humans -- nothing beyond that is elaborated. (And Shag makes some excellent points about how maybe even "Enterrprise" can't be blamed for that reading of UFP history -- good points, Shag.)

Jerry Goldsmith also scored "Insurrection" and "Nemesis." In fact, many film score fans seem to regard "Nemesis" as one of his finest later works. I was a little confused as to why he lifted that four-note motif from "A Busy Man" in Star Trek V and stuck it in "First Contact," but it works. That scene on the dish is, as Chris says, probably the score's best moment. I wish a full version of the score would be released -- the GNP Crescendo CD is woefully short. (Chris, you mentioned Alexander Courage -- did he ever score anything for Trek beyond the Main Theme? I don't think so, but maybe I am wrong on that.)

Worf didn't get his own ship, but for whatever reason he was commanding the Defiant at the time of First Contact -- I guess he was "representing" DS9 in the battle to save Earth from the Borg. He commanded it on other occasions in the series, as I recall. But the Worf issue they *completely* left unresolved was that Worf was now hooked up with, if not in fact married to, Jadzia Dax -- and yet there is NO interaction between Worf and Troi in First Contact! Not even one measly throwaway line for fans (like me!) who wanted to know why Worf and Troi had broken up. I mean, I understand, trying to appeal to the widest audience as possible is always a challenge for Trek movies; they had enough else to deal with and really couldn't take the time ... but it sure would have been nice. As it is, we just have Troi smiling blandly at Worf when he comes aboard -- NOTHING! Not even a meaningful glance! And it's not addressed in either "Insurrection" or "Nemesis," either, when theoretically there could have been more time to explore that. Oh, well!

[ljacone]

@JonathonCrites -- Thanks for posting that dude. My nearly 2 year old son is dancing to Kirk Is On The Mountain!

[Joe Anthrax]

Great show guys. It's cool that you got Shag on to voice his opinions on the movie, since he is never at a lack of them . But I will agree with him that this is my favorite of the Next Gen movies. Insurrection and Nemesis were watch in the theater and never revisit films (I might have to rectify that sometime in the near future), and I think the reason behind that was due to the two films not being the well written "spectacle" movie that First Contact was. Yes, it does have its flaws (the whole concept of the Borg Queen, the holodeck fight scene), but overall it does a good job of expanding the characters by giving them some bigger set/action pieces to play with.

Joe -- It could also be that the movie plays heavily off "The Best of Both Worlds" episodes, which are by far TNG's finest -- Anthrax

[Joe Anthrax]

Also, I totally remember The Star Trek Experience at the Hilton in Vegas. It wasn't one of the hotels on the Strip, so there wasn't as much fanfare about it being there but it was a neat experience. As you walked up to the exhibit, you went down a walkway that had Trek memoribilia such as uniforms, props, models of ships and the like, but what was interesting was a Trek timeline that they had going along the rail of the walkway to the "ride". It was pretty accurate, giving specific dates of our history and Trek history seemlessly combined. I can't remember if it went much further past Voyager continuity, since I recall that show was still running when we went to Vegas. But the "ride" was pretty much like Shag described it, you go on to the bridge of the Enterprise-D, head to a shuttle and watch a video of the ship flying over Vegas being chased by a Bird of Prey, and have the Enterprise rescue you and Picard thank you for your effort. There was a Borg one that came later, but I never got to see that one.

Interesting story...as my wife and I were entering (oh, who am I kidding, I went and dragged my wife along) the Hilton to go to the Experience, a Kia Sephia drove up to the curb and out popped a 6'6" Klingon in full costume and a Ferrengi in the typical Quark style DS9 outfit. The Klingon said to his wife who drove him there "Love you honey, see you after work," nodded at us, and headed into the extras entrance. And the way he said it was typical married couple banter. I muttered to my wife "Kia...A warrior's transport!" and snickered to myself. The juxtaposition of a Klingon exiting a enconomy sized Korean car was just hilarious. It was made all the more humorous/awkward when he encountered me and my wife in the line for the Experience and we exchanged a half-hearted "Qa'plaH".

Joe -- The Ferrengi did serve some good drinks, though... -- Anthrax

[ljacone]

[Arthur Ratnik]

[Irredeemable Shag]

Hey guys! Thanks for all the nice comments here regarding the episode. I had a real blast being on the show and truly appreciate being invited. Also, thanks for not tearing me apart for the ending of the episode.

GORN BORG FOREVER!

Looking forward to Scott and Chris' next episode of Star Trek Monthly Monday!

The Irredeemable Shag
http://firestormfan.com
http://onceuponageek.com

[Bibliomike]

[Bibliomike]

Ok -- Really enjoyed the whole rest of the episode, too. But Shag -- what do you mean you don't see lenticular covers anymore? Are you not collecting "Doctor Who" on DVD? I think every season since season/series 2 (Tennant & Piper) has lenticular artwork on it!

Re: non-bipedal Borg -- There was a story in one of the early "Strange New Worlds" anthologies (number 4, maybe?) about a Borg Tribble. Sounds ridiculous, and it's kind of a tongue in cheek story, but it is also actually very good... I think it captured one of the top three prizes that year, maybe just for the sheer audacity of the premise!

I had the CD-ROM "Star Trek Encyclopedia," too! "Will never be out of date," my foot. I got one update and then Paramount told me there would be no more. Dagnabit. I also think there is a keyboard-operated "Shoot the Borg" game on that soundtrack CD. It was pretty lame, as I recall.

No, "Star Trek VI" in 1991 starts with "For Gene Roddenberry." Everything after that was done after his death. "First Contact" does stay true to the Roddenberry ethos, in my opinion, while still incorporating a large amount of action and conflict. You've got Picard's whole speech to Lily, and the idea that the future gets better.

Again, thanks for this episode, guys! Good job, great movie!

[Irredeemable Shag]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Oh man, the Star Trek Encyclopedia. I'd browse that thing for HOURS when I was a teenager.

[Joe Anthrax]

[Bibliomike]

My intent wasn't to start a debate on whether one should buy the box sets -- merely to point out they are one franchise still doing lenticular covers. Also, "The Incredible Hulk" Blu-Ray has a cool lenticular cover.

[ljacone]

All I will say in regards to the modern Doctor Who is that Christopher Eccleston can no longer be The Doctor for me.

For now whenever I see him all I see is James McCullen Destro.

[Joe Anthrax]

[Arthur Ratnik]

[Joe Anthrax]

I was wondering where that video was going, as I thought it might end up bad for the poor kitty or it might turn out to be one of those screamer prank videos...

Joe -- Is it wrong for me to expect that? -- Anthrax