Oh boy, I think Scott and Michael Bailey might Implode!

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Yes, Superman should be APOLITICAL insofar as real world politics go.

[NewFun#6]

[Bibliomike]

[Bibliomike]

[ljacone]

[Dan North]

[Arthur Ratnik]

This is why I think this kind of story in Superman is misguided. It might be a good story, it may be nuanced and more realistic, but why is there a need for Superman to be that way? As an icon, Superman is ready for parody and dissection, but do it as such. Do a story about Patriot Man renouncing his US citizenship. If politics become overt in Superman, that's going to alienate some people and that's really not fair. The politics of Superman should be assessed 20 years down the line in the context of subtext.
Superman was not created to exist in "reality", he's a straight-up Jungian archetype. He loses all his juice when he starts becoming too complex. I want Superman to be for kids for the most part. Kids and grown-ups who want to feel like kids. I'll read The Walking Dead when I want grown-up stuff.
There's nothing wrong with escapism, everybody has their own way of doing it. Why take something escapist and make it realistic? If I want to grapple overtly with the issues of today, I go to REAL places like news sites or something, NOT a Superman comic. I don't want it, I don't expect it. That stuff could be encoded DEEPLY and symbolically and in very simple terms, but it should be subliminal to the cool fights and amusing stories.
The questions an 8 year old should be having about a Superman comic should be along the lines of "What is a Bizarro?" rather than "Why doesn't Superman want to be American?" I also think that if a Superman comic is too complex for an 8 year old, it has no business being a Superman comic. I'm not saying he should be infantilized, I'm saying it should be enjoyable if your 8 to 80 years old. It's possible, it's been done for many years and it's still possible. I've been turned off by superhero comics for decades now because when the 90's kicked in, the amount of pretentious, self-indulgent narcissistic writing went through the roof. Superhero stories, unfortunately, seem to be made for the purpose of middle age fanboy circle jerks these days. I think that many writers and fans have forgotten that THEY got hooked in as kids and maybe it might be nice to play to that audience sometimes, instead of their peers.

[NewFun#6]

This thread is starting to piss me off more than the issue that inspired it.

[Dan North]

I understand why old Superman fans would be insulted by this, but for a new Superman fan like myself who didn't really care for the character in the past this is the kind of Superman I could read. But honestly I can see why you guys who are old school Superman fans would hate this, I walked away from Spider-Man because they changed the character in ways I didn't like, and again as a newbie I like this Superman.

[Grekyll]

Scott and Chris, your posts prove just how bad ass you guys are. I think very much in the same vain as you guys. I have not read the story yet, but can only think that over time Superman became the world's hero that was an American. I don't read comics for reality, it is for the brief escape from the real world, that's why I am a DC fan boy. DC going Marvel is really starting to grind on me. I have been reading new comics for 30 plus years and don't want to stop, but being driven towards that end.

[NewFun#6]

[rd666]

I'm about to read the issue in question - but just to keep it all in perspective, I have the doc 'Superman: You Will Believe' playing in a nice little window in the corner.

At least we can hope that the new readers will have their curiosity piqued and track down old cbr archives to get the full story...

Much like when I shudder to think what 10 years worth of Smallville would do for Superman as Icon by mixing 90210 teen soap bullshit with a mashed up version of the canon...

Smallville turned out to be not totally craptastic - but mainly because of my patented rd666 Viewing Method:

Download the Season Premier and Season Finale of each year of the show and read the wiki to find any relevant episodes from the middle - by cutting out all the filler and only getting the meat n taters, it isn't bad at all. I went 10 years without watching a second of it and blew thru the 25 or so relevant episodes in a week.

Some of it is really good - (I very much enjoyed the JSA episodes) some is forced too hard (the Lois/Lana thing) some is just fucking confusing (was that Jimmy Olsen or not?) but NONE of it is the Superman mythos I would claim as mine.

PS: Fuck that version of Green Arrow.

[ljacone]

[ljacone]

PS, rd, I LOVE your signature image!

[Dan North]

[rd666]

I agree that Smallville has done good things for DC - and I also imagine that if you had watched from the beginning, the slow drip of the Teen Drama stuff would be far less noticeable than taking in big chunks all at once - if you catch 4 or 5 episodes in a sitting it tends to stick out like a sore thumb and if you skip episodes and then find out on the fly that Luthor married Lana and that she's been cloned and that Chloe chick has been chasing Clark, then Jimmy Olsen then Green Arrow and that Lois banged most of the Justice League at one time or another it's like 'whoa, WTF?'

It has gotten a lot better now that it has settled in to dovetail into some semblance of DC continuity.

I was putting Smallville out as another case of where a little kid raised on that show today would think that that IS the original Superman mythos much like a noob who gets Action #900 and thinks Superman is some kind of Political Activist or some shit.

You also raise a good point and show topic - 'Name your definitive version of...'

And I just finished Action 900 - first, the lead story was confusing as fuck if you haven't been following along for months (which I haven't).

DC should swipe the 'Previously In...' first page intro idea from Marvel with the quickness.

The Jor-El short was the highlight of the book for me. Nice n easy with a twist.

The Incident - the story that is causing all the ruckus was maybe the most contrived/shoehorned/forcefed bit of heavy handed Op-Ed bullshit in the guise of a comic story I've seen in a long ass time.

Seems like a bit of 'This'll get some big pub' editorial nonsense - shock jock stuff - if you try too hard to make comics 'relevant' or put some kind of timestamp on them, it usually doesn't work too well.

If you want an Anniversary Issue this month that totally rips ass, get the Captain America 70th Double Size Gonzo #616 - it rocks Giant Size Balls, IMO.


Beware of Spoilers! Fuck yeah!

[Dan North]

[rd666]

Nah, nobody's gonna get fileted - if the question of 'Name Your Definitive Version Of...' is posed, everybody gets to make their own case for each character or book/movie/etc...

[Hair-Metal Hero]

I tend to agree with Honeywell on this. There are 2 characters, Spider_man and Superman, whose comics in the mainstream continuity should be all ages affairs, and Comics most certainly have devolved into a level of oversexualization and politicism. Dan, no one is going to beat you up, I disagree vehemently with the direction that DC is taking their flagship character, but if you dig it, keep on reading it.

[ljacone]