The COMICS MONTHLY MONDAY THREAD

[NewFun#6]

[Arthur Ratnik]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Damn, Smooth Criminal Indeed!

[Dave Z]

While I disagree with Scott(being a Joker apologist) I do see what he means. To bring in another villain that I love, the Daleks, I understand that everyone's sick of them showing up and the fact they will never go away for marketing and stuff, but I love almost any time either of them show up.

Oh and props for the inclusion of the speech from Return of the Joker. Animated Joker is my absolute favorite.

[Rob Boswell]

Enjoyed the Freaky Five discussion on killing off characters, and, though I'm a day late and a dollar short, I do feel compelled to give my own list ...

First, though, a few general thoughts on killing off major characters. Basically, I figure if you are a writer and you kill off a major character, you are on a major hiding to nothing because it's inevitable that they're going to be brought back sooner or later.

To illustrate, let's look at the track record of one Jean-Marc DeMatteis. I bow to no one in my love of DeMatteis' writing, but it has to be said that the "Touching Death of a Major Character" story has become something of a standard schtick for him over the years. In the mid-90s at Marvel, for example, DeMatteis went on a bit of a rampage, killing off characters at the pace of one a year. In 1993, it was Harry Osborn (Spectacular Spider-Man #200); in 1994 he did in Aunt May (Amazing Spider-Man #400); and in 1995 he offed Jamie Madrox (X-Factor #100). All of these characters were, of course, subsequently resurrected.

And, lest we forget, this is the same J M DeMatteis who offed the Red Skull in 1984 (Captain America #300) and Kraven the Hunter in 1987 (Amazing Spider-Man #294). Both of whom were, of course, subsequently resurrected. In fact '87 was another big year for DeMatteis, because it was also the year that he knocked off the original Doctor Fate, Kent Nelson, in the Doctor Fate mini series. Nelson was, of course ... well, you get the picture.

Anyway, the point is that it's pretty easy to off a character for dramatic effect or pathos, but when you are working in an industry where your story it's inevitable your story is eventually going to be undone or retconned, maybe you're better off to make a bit more effort and come up with an interesting story that doesn't rely on that crutch ...?

With all that having been said, let's kill off some characters! Here's my top 5 characters who should be killed off and never, ever brought back:

5: Norman Osborn - his resurrection undermined a truly classic story, and when they brought him back they turned him into a rip-off of the Man of Steel-era Lex Luthor (which is nothing like how Norman had previously been depicted).

4: Jason Todd - for all the reasons discussed in the podcast.

3: Bucky - sorry, folks, but there are some rules that should never be broken and one of them is "only Bucky and Uncle Ben stay dead." Plus, bringing him back as a cyborg assassin is a horrendous plot device that should have stayed in the '90s where it belongs (didn't they do the same trick with Moon Knight's sidekick back then?).

2: Psylocke - a character so utterly ruined by retcon upon retcon that the only thing left to do with her is put her out of her misery.

1: Gambit - anyone remember when Gambit was cool? Basically, Marvel has had no idea what to do with this guy since Jim Lee left the X-Men about 20 years ago. Plus, that accent is REALLY annoying.

Bubbling under: Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Gwen Stacey's kids from "Sins Past".

R

[NewFun#6]

[Hair-Metal Hero]

As per my freaky five list-F Gambit, F him in his Effin ear.

[Rob Boswell]

[Joe Anthrax]

Even though I am the resident Green Lantern apologist, I will have to wholeheartedly concur with you Scott that Hal Jordan should die or have stayed dead. Although, I don't dislike the character to the level that you do, I don't see why everyone (especially He Who Shall Not Be Named) has such a hard-on for him. In my re-read of the 1990's Green Lantern series, I've found Hal to be an arrogant, self centered, douche who is able to get away with all manner of behavior that would get another Green Lantern clocked by the Dark Knight Detective. This may just be the writer at the time portraying the character in the wrong manner, but it seems that his cock-sure attitude has carried on through the New 52 reboot. Add to that his "death" bringing about the character of Kyle Rayner, who was written very well throughout his run on the title, and there is really no reason for Hal to be around. Both Hal and Barry had a successor to carry on the mantle, and both were pissed on by the new creative team's desire to bring back those classic characters.

That being said, I'm glad Chris enjoyed Emerald Dawn. I think it was a far better origin story than the recent feature film. It had the cosmic elements, the training montages, the self-doubt of the character, and an epic battle at the end of the book. Yes, it had moments of wonkiness and a large amount of Hal being an arrogant ass, but it was a well constructed story that brought Green Lantern into the post Crisis era. Personally, I enjoyed it's sequel Emerald Dawn II, and not only because Guy Gardner plays a part in it. It is a nice companion piece to the first series in that it tells the story of Sinestro, and how his desire to maintain order on his homeworld lead him down his path of villainy.

Finally, thanks for the plug at the end of the show. And yes, I was glad to hear that Guy Gardner wasn't on anyone's list, but I think that he is so overshadowed by the Cult of Hal that his actions aren't as apt to have people want to see him dead.

Joe -- Oh, and Aunt May can keel over any time now for all I care -- Anthrax

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Guy, John and Killowog are my fave lanterns, Hal can rot.

[ljacone]

I'm not much of a GL fan. I read the book for a few months when I was getting into DC comics in the early 90s and I thought that Hal Jordan was cool back then. I don't have a problem with Hal being a cocksure jerk. He's an arrogant fighter pilot who suffers from a minor god complex, he should be egotistical and overconfident. And then that overconfidence and arrogance comes back to bite him; at least, it should. I like Hal in the context of hanging out with guys like Barry Allen. Barry is methodical, measured, and reflective; he thinks about the problem and figures out a solution. He doesn't dive headfirst into a problem and think of something as he goes -- that is what Hal does. So the two of them together are great.

I don't have a problem with Hal Jordan being the star of the book because he is the main Green Lantern in the DC Universe. He's the most recognizable and famous GL. I liked the movie and still like the character, but not enough that I am going to buy his book.

I don't have any particular opinion on John, having never read much of his comic appearances. I thought he was alright on the Justice League cartoon, but he wasn't really playing his character from the comics from what I understand, he was more of a "suit to fit" type of character.

I have never read much witg Guy Gardner. Some stuff but not much. Listening to JOOTG is pushing me towards grabbing Guy's GL run and his stints in the Justice League, though. He really seems to be a character who is right up my alley. I need to get at least a few issues because of the crossover with Hawkman. Now there's a team-up...

I like Kyle. I think he slots in nicely with Wally West as the "next generation" heroes and I liked seeing the two of them together (even though Wally clearly has a much longer history than Kyle). I thought that making him Ion was a nice touch, the sort of "local kid makes good" turn which meant that even though he wasn't the star of the series, he wasn't just shuffled off into obscurity like Connor Hawke, either. And see what I said about Barry and Hal? I think Kyle and Wally had a similar good relationship, although it was reversed. Wally tended to be more hotheaded, while Kyle was usually the cool customer.

Killowag is awesome. I don't think anyone will argue that.

I still like Alan Scott. Even with all the controversy surrounding his Earth 2 orientation, I still like the character and his look. Very much looking forward to his throw down with Grundy over in E2.

[ljacone]

[Dave Z]

Uhm....BYE!
*flees*

[NewFun#6]

[Gridley1701A]

loved all the Aunt May hate in the latest episode. what spider man fan actually likes this annoying bag of bones ? I can't believe that the writers are jazzed about having her in the books. I haven't read anty Spider books for over a decade, yet I see online that they're drawing her younger and younger recently and making her look like she's in her 60's instead of the ancient one she was for decades.

all the Aunt May talk leads to my suggestion for a future list:
Top 5 least favorite supporting characters
1-Aunt May (obviously)
2-J.Jonah Jameson (we get it, you hate spider man, enough already. maybe they've changed that since i last read a spider book)
3-Carol Ferris (I know she's Star Sapphire now, but for years, he romance with Hal Jordan was one of the least interesting in comics as he kept having to choose between her and the Corps)
4-Jarvis (was only interesting when the Masters of Evil beat the shit out of him)
5-Franklin Richards (always annoyed me how they kept him as five year old for decades as that "Unca Ben, Unca Johnny" stuff bugged me. at least they've aged him a little the past few years so now he's about 10-11. Still they keep doing that same stuff with him when they bring an older/adult version into the present for awhile then deage him again or have him lose and regain his powers over and over again)

also agreed with the anti Lex Luthor sentiment too. he's one of those characters who has been around for so long, that there's nothing really new to do with him anymore.

[Dave Z]

[NewFun#6]

[Lomax]

I'm normally a level headed guy when it comes to people having negative feelings on characters I like. However, I just flipped my lid reading a new article on dorkly.com titled "The 9 Worst Superhero Teams of All Time" by Dan Abromowitz. My blood boiled when I saw his number 1 pick (I won't reveal it on this thread. Go to the link below if you want to get just as pissed as myself).



What angered me was the last line of the paragraph in which he states "Everything that's horrible in comics,{CENSORED} are responsible for." Just another pretentious hipster @$$hole like Max Landis spewing ignorant, poorly argued opinions to stir the pot and get page views.

Disclaimer: The following views expressed in this post are solely those of Lomax and may not reflect those of the Two True Freaks or other posters on this forum (They probaly are though). Also, Dorkly.com is a hilarious website focused on video game humor and shouldn't be blackballed by anyone in this community over this post.

Jesus, where's the Tylenol?

[ljacone]

I clicked through that link, Lomax. Sorry, but whomever wrote that is just fucking stupid. And as we say down South, "You can't fix stupid."

I'm mad that I gave them a pageview. So fucking stupid.

[Fanboyimus Prime]

Wow. Just wow. Most of those teams are in fact awesome and have great runs.

Yeah some of their runs aren't great but when you got books that have over 100 issues that tends to happen.