Forum for Geeks

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocom ... nston.html

Not a flag-waver?!!! Hello!! McFly!! He's Captain F**king AMERICA!! He WEARS the flag!!

Idiots!! I swear to God, man. How do you f**k this up?!

I agree. He's the ultimate symbol of patriotism. Especially back during WWII. I can see if some of that wore off in the modern day setting with everything being hyper-politicized and very partisan. But during WWII America's job was to kick ass and show off how great we are. The costume says it all folks.

For fuck's sake, do you need balls to be proud of your country these days? Or have the commies finally won?

You guys said it all. DITTO.

Well, to be devil's advocate here: patriotism does not equal "jingoism" and sloganeering, which is what the article goes on to say they are trying to avoid. "He wants to serve his country, he's a good person," it says.

I could see some kind of "edgy" or "subversive" take on Cap being the intent (especially given that the new costume design seems to downplay the red, white, and blue), *but* (1) news articles out of Comic-Con sometimes take things out of context and play them up for hype; and (2) it's probably just too early to tell; and (3) maybe the Steve Rogers character is going to be contrasted with some more one-dimensional "jingoist" character(s) in the film to make some larger point.

I will also admit I have absolutely no emotional investment in the character, so I'm game for whatever take the moviemakers want to try. I would agree, however, that it would be a mistake to play him as in any way anti-American. Just bear in mind, again, that patriotism does not equal uncritical flag-waving, "my country right or wrong."

Also, I thought Brubaker's comments in the article were enlightening: "In 2007, Brubaker told the New York Daily News: 'What I found is that all the really hard-core left-wing fans want Cap to be standing out on -- and giving speeches on -- the street corner against the George W. Bush administration, and all the really right-wing fans want him to be over in the streets of Baghdad, punching out Saddam Hussein.'" It may just be that the filmmakers are trying to stick to a love of country, rather than the hyper-partisanship we see on both sides of the aisle in our country today.

Just to throw in some good news, I just read somewhere that Joss Weden is writing and directing "Avengers". I don't no if this is well knowen new, but I'm happy that its him, and really can't wait.

This thing about Cp. A is just something the director said probably, once you see the film or the trailer thats when you can make really assumption. So I'm on the wait and see.

Regarding Captain America: I think at least part of this is hype to get mainstream media attention. Because of all of the movies Marvel is going to release as part of this cycle, Captain America is the one which has a big bullseye painted on it to be attacked by the MSM. Non-comics fans view Cap as a "jingoistic," "right wing," "conservative" character, despite the fact that most of the time he is portrayed quite the opposite of that. But if you get talking heads on CNN and MSNBC ranting and raving about this "right wing hero" worshiping movie, if you get Olbermann declaring Steve Rogers "the worst person in the world" and Rachel Maddow lamenting for a "real" hero, you're killing off a portion of your audience. They'd rather put something like this out there, so that all of the MSM will fawn over the idea of Captain America not being a jingoist or a "right wing" "warmonger" character. It's gotten them a whole lot of ink, so to speak, much more than if such a statement had not been made.

Honestly, what this will translate to on film is that some Senator/Congressman/Vice President/Presidential Aide/General will be a secondary bad guy and Cap will take him down. As far as I understand that is a cliche almost as old as Cap himself. I'd be more surprised if something of the like was not included.

Regarding Joss Whedon directing The Avengers, take it away Mr. Han Solo: "I've got a bad feeling about this..."

Whedon generated a lot of goodwill with me personally for co-writing "Toy Story". Beyond that, I'm not all that familiar with his work. He's worked on some good stuff and some god-awful stuff. I'll adopt a wait-and-see attitude on this one. Personally, my expectations on the Avengers flick collapsed when the powers-that-be announced that they wouldn't fight the Hulk because that was "too predictable" and "who wants to see that?". Uhhhhh, I do. Dumbasses.

You guys can sign me up for not liking Brubker either. I have tried several of his works and they all rub me the complete wrong way. Secret Avengers #1 (which I only got because of a shipping snafu) was one of the worst modern comics I have ever read.

My wife watched Buffy and Angel, so I ended up watching those shows a lot. Both were pretty poor. Buffy is one of the least compelling television shows I have ever watched. Just the same rehashed trying-too-hard-to-be-clever stuff over and over again, starring a huge Mary Sue character. Angel wasn't much better but being the "B" show at least they did different stuff to try and keep it on the air.

Firefly was great... when it was an anime called Outlaw Star. I am not an anime fan at all, but seriously, right down to the Giiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl In The Box (thanks to Alice in Chains) at the end of the first episode, it's a complete rehash. I borrowed the DVDs from my friend and watched them out of a sense of obligation more than anything else. Terrible. Serenity was just poorly made as well. Boring, jumbled, and mostly incoherent. I was downright flabbergasted that people, actual living people, were saying "Oh George Lucas needs to make movies like this!" Make incomprehensible movies that bomb?

I don't want the Avengers to be reduced to quipping, smart-mouthed smart-alecks who fight utilizing bad jump cuts between stunt men and closeups. I don't want the character pidgeon holed into the half dozen archetypes he likes.

About the only good thing this means is that we should get some solid stuff for characters like Black Widow, Wasp, Ms. Marvel etc.

As far as fighting the Hulk, is it predictable? Yes. But as I say to my brother about wrestling a lot, sometimes the predictable thing is the right thing.