The Star Trek Monthly Monday Thread

[NewFun#6]

[Webhead]

[NewFun#6]

The very last thing I want is for Bibliomike to feel ganged-up on. I respect Mike's views, even when I disagree, and I do try to remain open-minded to being persuaded differently. That said, it is gratifying to know that it's "not just me" on this one, as I was beginning to fear it might be.

[Webhead]

[NewFun#6]

[NewFun#6]

A very cool TNG screensaver -- http://mewho.com/system47/index_noflash.htm

[Bibliomike]

[NewFun#6]

[Bibliomike]

Finally getting to listen to the TNG episode. I have to admit (though this will surely not shock you), some of your humor is more raw than I usually like, but I just about spit my morning coffee out laughing when Chris said "Unnatural Selection" sounds like a porn title. That was funny, just the first of many funny moments (especially the "I think she does her job too well and enjoys it too much"). Nicely done. (On the other hand, thanks but no thanks on the idea of Kirk/McCoy slash fiction! Ugh!!)

I agree with Scott about the atomization ceremony. I always enjoy those glimpses of Starfleet's "pomp and circumstance," like the captains' wedding speech ("Since the earliest days of wooden sailing vessels..." in both "Balance of Terror" and "Data's Day" - what a cool callback that was), or the transfer of command ritual in "Chain of Command" ("I relieve you, sir"; "I stand relieved" - which, in turn, was nicely referenced in the Abrams Trek film).

Chris is right - Pulaski is a good character, one of the more interesting on TNG. I wonder if that's why she couldn't stick around. Same goes for Ensign Ro. There were probably other factors at work, too, but it does seem that characters who got too far "out of line" regarding the shiny, happy, Starfleet family vision of the show never got to stick around. Commander Shelby is another case in point. Captain Jellico. I know, they were written as guest stars - but why is that only the guest stars or limited run characters go to rock the boat?

Yeah, Bashir turns out to be a product of genetic engineering. Alexander Siddig really hated that development, because he felt it undercut his character's arc to that point - Bashir had started out as a wide-eyed naive and competent but no big deal, but eventually started becoming more effective, bolder, more compassionate as a doctor, etc. Siddig felt as though all that "coolness" was "explained away" as being the effects of his genetic advantages. I think I agree with him, but, as I've said, I really need to rewatch; and, in the "plus" column, it did put Bashir in some interesting situations re: Starfleet Command for the last part of the series.

"A Matter of Honor" - well, I liked it at the time because it was still early in the second season and really cool episodes were few and far between, and, hey, it was Klingons. I don't think it holds up very well (especially the space racism you mention - did that just not occur to anyone in the creative team that especially a goodie-goodied character like Wesley "I'm-with-Starfleet-we-don't-lie" Crusher wouldn't make a faux pas like that; Scott is exactly right to call out the crew on their failure to practice what they preach although, hey, again with the redhead comments! <g>), although Chris' comparisons of Riker to Kirk are very on the nose. Scott, nice call on connecting this episode to the premise of the Titan's crew. (And excellent call on Riker's father issues! Granted, he and his dad don't have a close relationship; but I don't think it's weird for him to say even so, because he probably wishes desperately for that kind of relationshp with Kyle (?) Riker, and thus is sad when he finds anyone else who doesn't have that kind of relationship with their father. Just a thought of how it might actually work. I think you're right, though, TNG didn't have the characters' personal stories mapped out in that detail, likely.)

I admit I haven't read those books, though I've occasionally been tempted. Diane Duane was a classic Trek author who really tried to take the idea of integrated crews seriously, too; she invented the Horta crewmember, Ensign Nahrat (sp?), who later shows up in the DC comics. She also effectively describes an alien glass spider onboard in her novel "The Wounded Sky" (the very loose basis for first-season TNG episode "Where No One Has Gone Before"). And, for sure, it does go a long way toward establishing the Klingon culture we know today. (Re: Riker's "...or Klingons!" line in GENERATIONS - I dunno, I'm speculating, but do you think maybe the intended subtext was that Riker had specific Klingons (namely, the Duras sisters) in mind? Minor thing, and I agree that it comes off really badly on screen.)

[Sailor_Sega]

[NewFun#6]

[JonathanCrites]

I have been slowly but surely working through the blu rays of the original cast films over the last few months and just recently finished STV.

Eh.

I found I like pretty much all the parts with Sybok - the rest was only ok.

Maybe I missed something while watching - do all the other people see the dramatization of each other's 'pain', as revealed by Sybok? Did Kirk and Spock see McCoy's scene with his father and vice versa? What would Kirk's scene have been?

I recently got a copy of the basic score and may I say, 'the Mountain' is a great piece of music. I wish the opening fanfare was separate from the rest of the track.

[Bibliomike]

"do all the other people see the dramatization of each other's 'pain', as revealed by Sybok?"

I've been unclear on that, as well. I think they must, given how Kirk reacts to McCoy's and Spock's scenes (let alone how Spock says, explicitly, "I believe we are witnessing my birth." I am glad Sarek wasn't a jerk about it in the ST 09 deleted scene!) I think JM Dillard's novelization makes a noble effort at explaining how this can be - Sybok is doing psychic projections or something. You just sort of have to go with it.

"What would Kirk's scene have been?"

Scott and Chris speculated it would've been Edith Keeler's death, and I think they're right.

I'm sorry you thought ST V was only "okay." It's not one I choose to rewatch on a regular basis, but there is a lot of good in it. The only things I really dislike about it, frankly, are Uhura's fan dance and her goo-goo eyes relationship with Scotty (where did that come from?), along with the stupid Scotty-bangs-his-head-on-the-steam-pipe gag. *This* from the guy who sabatoged a transwarp computer? The miracle worker? Not buying it. And it's *not* just a throwaway gag - it's a damned plot point, because it gets Scotty into sickbay, where Uhura tries to get him to submit to Sybok's ministrations. Ugh. Well, and Klaa is underwhelming as a villain (Dillard does good stuff with him and Vixis both in the book.) But the stuff the movie usually gets a lot of grief for - the supposedly "Kirk-centric" focus (it's not at all, it's Kirk-Spock-McCoy focused, as I and others here have said before), the action sequences, the "God plot" - none of that do I really have a problem with.

[NewFun#6]

I like V a lot, but will freely admit that it is a guilty pleasure. What I like most about it is that it is an actioner with Kirk in the forefront. I look at it as a big budget third season episode.

[Bibliomike]

[stevejrogers]

[stevejrogers]

FWIW, since I brought up Babylon 5, that reminds me of some of the silliness of fandom.

Story goes that B5's creator, J. Michael Straczynski pitched the idea that became Babylon 5 to Paramount for an eventual Star Trek series, and was turned down. Lo and behold, DS9 comes around with pretty much the same premises as this show JMS was scratching and clawing all over Hollywood to get picked up.

From that point onward started the war between not only the fans of the show, but producers and even cast members of the show against Deep Space Nine and Star Trek/Paramount in general. Except for fandom, and even that it always seems to be "Awww, look at those annoying trolls, aren't they cute," from the Trek/DS9 camp. Basically B5 fandom and TPTBs cried fowl with everything from names sounding familiar to the fact that DS9 debuted The Defiant after B5 introduced a ship for the main character of their show to commandeer.

Now, the point where I find this to be funny, considering B5 pretty much ended up just being a nice little cult TV show, while JMS was able to pull off his 5 year vision of a TV show, he still had to fight to get the show to keep going season, after season. He had an audience, but it wasn't like he was pulling in TNG like numbers (if I'm not mistaken, TNG still holds the record as highest rated scripted syndicated program, if not it probably still is very high up on that chart) to justify being on air.

Which brings up the whole point about snipping at a show that, at least from what I can tell, got the red-headed step-child treatment. In a way it's like a lowly copy-boy intern who dreams of being in the position of a low-level middle manager because he feels cheated out of that particular job, despite it not being the ultimate brass ring of the company.

[Bibliomike]

I have heard and wondered that about the supposed connection(s) between B5 and DS9. To hear the DS9 folks tell it, of course, the choices they made were "inevitable" in terms of trying to do "the same but different": if it can't be a starship, it'll have to be a space station; if the other series were primarily from the Federation's p.o.v., the new one would have to be primarily from the alien's; etc. So I guess it depends on whom one is inclined to believe.

I will say, I enjoyed both B5 and DS9, and, while they start from similar premises, they end up in very different places. Sisko doesn't lead a revolt against the Federation, mainly. (I didn't so much enjoy Year 5 of B5, but, y'know, nothing's perfect.)

Also, I give JMS credit for being ahead of his time. A decade or so later, after serialized TV shows became all the rage, he'd probably have had no problem getting B5 on the air and keeping it there.

[Arthur Ratnik]

[JonathanCrites]

What is the next tOS episode?